A Modern Guide to Dating – With comments from Mark and Jack
Tinder, eharmony, RSVP, group dates, good ol’ match making – with all these new ways to meet people, have we lost the tradition of dating? Gone are the days where a date is properly defined. Instead, this is what modern dating looks like:
(Hear it from a guy’s as well. Mark’s comments are in blue. Jack’s are in green)
The ‘Hang Out’ Date
Not sure if a girl/guy will say yes if you ask them out? Then ask them to ‘hang out’ to test the waters. This is the non-comital way to ask someone out – a.k.a the cop out way to gauge if someone likes you back. The hang-out date is exactly like your traditional date only with a casual label. You’ll still go to dinner and a movie but it’ll be classified as a hang out in case rejection is looming.
Mark says: I think the “hang out date” is just an evolution of dating. If you think that we’ve lost our traditional, romantic ways then you’ve forgotten that the old ways of dating used to consist of parental chaperones and letters of good intentions from the gentleman. I don’t think dating with your mom beside you is quite the romantic ideal you were hoping for. Maybe it’s safer to say “I miss dating in the 80’s and 90’s, without so much technology” This is similar to what’s going on with getting phone numbers and calling a girl up – now it’s “can I get your facebook?/whatsapp/wechat?” and just sending her a “hey whats up?” after.
Jack says: This works when you establish a common interest or find something that you both want to do, see or experience. To avoid seeming like a friend when you really want more you have to make it clear from the very start. Flirt a little, touch his arm when you talk, look him in the eye and smile or use whatever smooth moves you’ve got. I’ve just given three of my best… He’ll be doing the same type of things so you’ll know if he like likes you or you’ve been relegated to the dreaded ‘friend zone, zone, zone, zone’…
Asking someone to ‘hang out’ is vague and open to interpretation because if they say no, it’ll soften the blow. However, the vagueness of this kind of date can also put you into friend zone; ‘hanging out’ is what friends do. You don’t want her/him to think of you as just a friend…do you?
Mark: Blind dates are no fun because you have nothing to go on except your friend’s vague and useless comments of “he’s so cool” or “she’s a really nice girl” (note: no friend ever says “he’s kind of an asshole but I’m sure you’ll love him” or “she’s quite a mean bitch”) The problem with a blind date is that if there’s no mutual initial attraction, both parties expect to spend at least one excruciating hour trying to be polite and appear interested.
Jack: It most definitely is a first date and probably the last from experience. You shouldn’t need more than 5 minutes to know if a second is warranted. That gives time enough to establish dress sense, personality, humour, manners and most importantly… chemistry! I wont ever waste my time on a second if I’m not feeling it the first time round. Chemistry doesn’t develop, it’s either there or it isn’t.
The Non-Date Date
These type of dates are often one sided. For example – girl likes guy, guy likes girl but not in a romantic way. He still wants to spend time with her so he then has to find the delicate balance of going out with her while keeping her in friend zone. They’ll go out together by themselves and go on what could be disguised as dates. She has a glimmer of hope that they’ll eventually get together, meanwhile he’s hoping this friendship can stay just that…or he puts her on the maybe list of women to date (some have these kind of dates as an ego booster). Even though these dates appear to be dates, the one-sided intention makes it a non-date kind of date.
Mark: I think “non date dates” are definitely only for younger people. When you’re old like me, you know what you want and what you don’t want. As a result, you don’t want to waste a second of your time doing something you don’t want. You immediately do the cost/benefit analysis: if this person is too much trouble, then just ignore them and hope they go away. Girls, if a guy is not interested in you; it usually doesn’t look good for your case. You don’t convince guys to go out with you – they settle on you because the one they wanted rejected them.
Jack: Going on a ‘friendly’ date when one person is romantically interested is never going to turn out well. I once went on a 12hr friendly date after being lured by my greatest weakness… free tickets to the cricket in a corporate box. I spent more time talking about feelings than I did about batting statistics! I have nightmares about that day! Needless to say when she eventually put the hard word on me I said a very BIG no and never saw her again. You either have to look at the situation objectively, where you’ll find that one person has a crush and the friendship ain’t gunna work, or give time enough to cool before you start the friendship on more neutral terms. Mind you though, If you told her straight from the start then the relationship should either be over or you have a ‘sleeper’ on your hands. She says she’s over it but that twinkle in her eyes says otherwise.
The Group Date
Ah… the group date is a cousin of the hang out date but even more strategic. Next time you get invited to a group activity by a new guy/girl – consider if they are actually inviting you to a group date. These types of dates are put in place so friends can suss out the potential of the object of affection. Inviting a love interest to a social setting with your friends is the same as having an exit strategy for a bad date. If it’s not going well, friends can swoop in to offer some comic relief. The downside of this kind of date (other than the lack of intention and romance) is that it’s very intimidating for the other person (you’re throwing them in the hot seat and they may not even know it) and also distracting especially in the beginning stages when you’re still getting to know each other. If she said yes to a group date, she’s either thinking of you as a friend or hoping to meet one of your other single friends. Again…with all the blurry lines, how is she suppose to know?
Mark: I haven’t really done a group date mainly because you’re not yourself. There can’t be two alpha males in a group so whoever is the one organizing the group date, everyone has to take a backseat to that person. Any attempts to take this man’s mace of leadership away just makes you look like a dick.
Jack: Established couples love the group date. They sit on the other side of the table tapping their fingers together whispering ‘yes, that’s it, soon you will be one of us… mwamwamwa’. This kind of date is foolproof though. You are both with your own mates so should be very relaxed and yourself from the get go. You shouldn’t be nervous or awkward or anything else you happen to be when on a conventional first date. And when the night is over you happened to like your intended, its a breeze to ask her out for a second date just for two or ask your meddling couple friends to make it happen.
The Traditional Date
This is my favourite. Like guys who open doors, pull out chairs and help you out of taxis, this type of date is so rare. This is when a guy sees a girl they are physically and emotionally (maybe) attracted to. They muster up the courage to ask them out to dinner or to an outing where he can get to know her. He doesn’t ask her to ‘hang out’, doesn’t invite her to a friend’s birthday. He just asks to spend some decent quality time with her. She is clear of his intentions and gives him a simple yes or no. No confusion. No blurry lines. Old fashioned? Perhaps. But at least it won’t keep us guessing whether that ‘hang out’ was really a date.
Mark: Chivalry chivalry chivalry. Let me ask you, if it was a magical night for you but it didn’t really do it for him, how crushed would you be if he never followed up with you? The higher you get picked up, the harder you crash.
Jack: This is only old fashioned because it doesn’t happen very often. There are so many 30+ guys and gals who have never been on a date! It is incredibly difficult to meet girls in everyday life because you girls freak out when a guy talks to you unexpectantly on the street or at a bus stop. It’s nothing more than polite conversation not a marriage proposal so take a few deep breaths and talk normally like you would to a friend. I was crossing the street not too long ago and it was pouring down rain. I walked up to lights waiting for the little green man and a girl in business attire stood next to me. I simply asked her if she’d like to share my umbrella while we crossed the street… She looked at me as if I had asked for her kidney at gunpoint and said ‘ummm… no thank you’ with a nervous smile. At first I was surprised and offended but after a moment had a giggle as I watched her standing in the rain for absolutely no reason at all. I wasn’t asking her out or had the slightest inclination to do so and I bet she looked back on that situation and didn’t know why she said no to such a harmless gesture. The story just highlights that most girls are so guarded against creeps that they don’t see genuinely nice people either.
Message in the story? Just ask us out properly! Most of the time, we’ll say yes. Mark: We know you’ll say yes because every girl wants to go on a date and be treated like a lady. That’s why we rarely do it.
- Is he/she someone you just met?
- Is he/she single?
- Does he/she pay for you?
- Other than the group date, does he/she invite anyone else to come along?
If you’ve said yes to 1,2,3 and no to 4, then it’s a date.
What's Your Reaction?
I personally feel the traditional date is absolutely the best way to go! It cuts through any ambiguity about your intentions and women respond positively to a man who is upfront and honest about who he is and what he wants. It also means you don’t waste any time if the other party isn’t interested and also keeps you well clear of the dreaded ‘Friend Zone’.
Hang out dates are ambiguous. Group dates are weird and confusing. Blind dates can certainly be a little strange at times, but you’re in control of your life, so make sure you have fun. If you have a good time, the other person will probably too.
I disagree about Jacks comments surrounding meeting women on the street or at the bus stop. While it is absolutely possible to freak out a women, if you are relaxed in your approach, smile, act confidently, be friendly and engaging, the worst that will happen is that you will make a woman’s day with a genuine compliment. If it is done right, it is an incredibly powerful and effective way to meet women! If it is done wrong, you will be standing all alone with your umbrella.
Agreed Nick! A little bit of tradition goes a long way.
Great delivery. Solid arguments. Keep up the great work.